Transcription of EFTA01619495

[3dithKohn]

"Hi Jeff, this is Deepak so I got your two messages and I just finished my morning yoga class and I have to meet somebody at 8 and then I'm taking a flight to Nantucket and actuallu I'm really looking forward to this, there's a lot of excitement around this Nantucket project and it seems the whole town is coming and a friend of mine Elizabeth Bagley who was with Hilary all the time and is leaving the campaign trail to come and staying in the home of Johnson & Johnson, whatever that is. The Kennedys are coming and it's like the talk of the town and the local newspaper has written an article apparently that i'm the biggest charlatain in the universe. But not with saying that I'm really looking forward to it, they have 7 cameras, they're going to do 2 filmings, one tonight and one tomorrow night. So let me first address the twp things you spoke about, one is that meditation can be dangerous so, you know, there's a lot of misconceptions about meditation and I think my last book I'm going to do this present book You Are The Universe and then I have to do a book with Rudy on the healing response and you know my apparently my MGH appointment is coming through as scientist MGH and co-director of whatever this brain institute will be so I'm doing a book with Rudy on the healing response. But I think I'll do one more book after that probably and it should be the encyclopedia of meditation. Becasue there are hundreds of meditations and most people don't even know most of them these days. You know the most popular is what they call awareness or even worse they call it mindfulness but it's not really the right word because the awareness of a thought is not a thought. The awareness of the mind is not the mind and the awareness of awareness is the deepest level of being, so you know, nobody knows all these meditations, they don't talk about them and there are traditions but I will write a whole encyclopedia. That will be probably hopefully maybe I don't know but I want it to be the last book. And then I'm done. So that's my take on meditation, yes you know simple meditations can cause depressions, psychosis all kinds of things if one has an unstable personality as i've always mentioned there's a thin line between sages, psychotics, geniuses and rebels. These are people you can villify, you can praise, you can attack but you can't ignore them because they change the world. So yes, I have a lot of respect for depressives like Van Gogh and many others even Chopin or Mozart depressive I think he was jilted by a girl and then he became a philosopher in any case so I will write on meditation. On the mathematical formulas and structure for soul, I'm going to think hard about it because, you know, it would be great to have a [unintelligible] as an ally but I also don't want to encroach this territory which people get so upset when you do because if frankly speaking you don't even know what their territory is and I don't understand [unintelligible] I didn't understand it at all. But I think we're onto something here very very very important and that the universe [unintelligible] is a human construction. And that not only is all civilization is human construction, that is obvious, right, we created civilization music art science et cetera it's a human construction that came about as a result of experience and the knowing of experience and the interpretation of experience and the labeling of experience and the classification and coding of experience, all the semantics that actually allowed us to understand also the regularities of experience which we then call natural laws and then we, you know, manipulated those experiences and recreated civilization. But in the same way, we have created stars and galaxies and the entire universe because all we have access to is experience and the knowing of experience and that experience occurs in the fundamental awareness. Because you're going to have experience with [unintelligible] and that includes your body. How do you know you have a body? Well you sense it. How do you sense it? Sensations, images, feelings, thoughts, sense perceptions. What are these? These are activities in awareness of awareness and actually modified forms of awareness itself. Similarily, the mind it's a subtle form of the same thing, the ego is the same thing, the intellect is the same thing, and then because of our ability to, you know, kind of parse this out into bits and pieces and parse it out and call these activities, which are essentially sense perceptions, sensations, images, feelings, thoughts that's raw experience and awareness and then, you know, because of our ability, like i said, to parse it out, classify it, manipulate it, we conceptualize also in awareness also in consciousness, mind, body, universe, stars, galaxies, big bang, the whole history which we're creating right now. We're creating it right now based on our imagination.Had we existed, this is what you would have experienced. Had we existed as this species called human then this is what we would experience. But we didn't exist as a human species and therefore we can't say what would have looked like, ok, or what it was because what we have is human experience. Similarly as we move forward this is the universe evolving what we're seeing is if you're around a million years from now in this what it will look like. But that is nothing like the look of the universe, it's only a way of looking through an experience that we call human being. Through an experience that we call human mind. The human mind, the human body and the universe are all objects of experience and the knowing of experience and that is happening in awareness and awareness can't be seen, touched, tasted or smelled because it is the one that is having those experiences. It has no form and having no form it is not in space time and that's fundamental reality if there is one, that's who we are, we are a species of awareness. In all the animals of the world, all the plants of the world, they are part of the human universe, you know, anything that we can give a name to that's part of the human universe whether that's a giraffe or a hippotamous or a plankton or an algae or a bacterium we created a name for a modality of experience and knowing of experience and we call it that and so the entire universe is human construct the one we experience. Are other animals having an experience? Well, I have no idea what the experiences to a species of consciousness that I could call a bat, what would does it look like to a bat, or taste like or smell like? The bat itself is also a species of consciousness but I know it as a species of consciousness in the human universe. In fact, now that I think about it since other species presumably have no language, they live in a dream world of sensations, images maybe some feelings and thoughts. and they're living in that dream and they don't conceptualize the dream and objectify it as the objective world. We too are living in a dream, which is we call the world. So going back to your philosopher that you quoted the first time I met you, Ludwig Witkenstein[?] who was bertram russel's favorite student, by the way, before the first world war and witkenstein said all life is a dream, we are asleep and once in awhile we wake up enough to know that we are dreaming. So I think the most important task right now is to wake up to the dream and understand that we are a species of awareness one rivulet and probably the biggest one the Ganges or the Nile amongst many rivulets of a fundamental, formless entity which we can call awareness, the thing in itself Immanuel Kant we have to rephrase it though and the way is not just talking about philosophy and it's no longer relevant at least that's the [unintelligible] of the world and Neil Tyson and all these guys, Brian Cox[?] in England, they just dismiss philosophy as useless. But the ability to think is an extraordinary ability the ability to reflect and the ability to express language which has given us a clue to the human universe the construct in consciousness that we call the universe the physical universe the construct in consciousness that we call human body the construct in consciousness that we call the mind so whilst my body or that which i call my body has been here on this tour selling a ridiculous book with a pretty girl called radical beauty actually I've been exploring all this and i'm going to articulate it to the best of my capacity tonight at the Nantucket project and again tomorrow and we'll see where it goes and I do think [unintelligible] could be a huge help in creating a model of that but in his language which we should respect and, you know, honor, so that's it in this long message but you gave me a lot of food for thought, take care I'm sending you lots of love and I'll be in touch."

https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/D ... 619495.m4a